Mysorean

22 responses so far ↓

• Arjuna_Speaks // Aug 8, 2006 at 5:43 pm

  brother - its only because she did the pooja u escaped without breaking u bones while u fell off the chair laughing ROTFL :D lol

• shark // Aug 8, 2006 at 8:31 pm

  Yes agreed that we should not do what we don’t know. But what’s wrong in “learning” how each ritual is done? It’s not that they don’t have any meaning… it’s just that we don’t know the meaning of it.

• adi // Aug 9, 2006 at 9:07 am

  Arjuna:
  Anna, agree with you! ROFL! Thank God!

  Shark:
  You have raised valid points. Let me try answering them to the best of my ability.
  Learning:
  Yes. It should be learnt. The rituals, however cynical I might be about them, should be given a chance. We should put in a sincere effort to learn how to do them and more importantly why to do them.

  The main idea behind every ritual, as far as I know, is to induce “Bhakti” in the individual. But in the lifestyle that we lead nowadays, “Bhakti” is more of a sanskrit-word-that’s-nice-to-hear than anything else!

• Shastri // Aug 9, 2006 at 9:19 am

  A very nice way to bring up a serious topic! Unfortunate it may be, but most of the ‘rituals’ that are followed done seem to make sense to me. So we (my wife and I) choose not to follow them.
  Moreover, I see most (if not all) of the rituals, as something that people have devised to show off their material wealth and the like.
  I dont see any particular reason that any God should be please on Varamahalakshmi vrita where you invite women who already have enough richness to pay back India’s debts and give them gifts.
  I would belive more in a God who asks for subtler kinds of devotion or insists that you invite the poorer who are more in need.

• Shastri // Aug 9, 2006 at 9:20 am

  Sorry for the typos. Very bad at multi-tasking.

• adi // Aug 9, 2006 at 9:52 am

  Shastri:
  Thanks!
  It is good that you and your wife have a policy because it doesn’t make sense to you both. It is essential that both of you agree to what you need to do.
  When you say that “..I see most (if not all) of the rituals, as something that people have devised to show off their material wealth and the like…” I am sure you mean nothing about the ritual but about the people doing it. In which case I totally agree with you. At the same time I must say, there are people who search for inner meaning in those rituals and do it with Bhakti.
  Varamahalakshmi Vrata, Mangala Gowri Vratha, Satyanarayana Vrata etc etc.. are all devised very scientifically. Whenever I have the time I shall elaborate on them. But right now, it suffices to say that the previous point applies here too. People have just twisted these to their material advantage.
  Your third point is where I would really like to emphasise a philosophy of mine. God doesn’t ask or insist on anything. If people are in need then there are people he has created who can satisfy those needs. It is upto us to realise these things. It is our beliefs and values that drive what we do and how we do. most of the times, we use God as a convenient scapegoat for all this. Why can’t someone simply say, “I believe that this is the way to do it and I do it”. If you and I go and question him, he must just say that “It’s my Life”. But people try to answer using Logic and not everything in this Universe is Logical.

  PS: My wife says that!

  Typos are not an issue. Your point was well understood.

• Shastri // Aug 9, 2006 at 11:23 am

  Yes, its the way people use God/Religion as an aid to their pomposity, is what irritates me. I have more respect for someone who prays in silence than the one who needs loud speakers; I have more respect for someone who goes to the temple, prays to his heart’s content and retruns than the one who spends thousands of rupees to get a Brahmotsava done. There is a big difference between Bhakti and showing off that you have Bhakti. I am against the second one. People who do the second kind are at the best, cheating themselves!

• Shastri // Aug 9, 2006 at 11:30 am

  As far as having scientifically designed vritas, it will take you a lot of effort to convince me on that ;) There is an extremely subtle line that separates science from pseudo-science and in most cases, its a personal choice where you want to see that line.
  My personal opinion is, science and religion are two exclusive things. (At least at present, may be we will have Grand Unified Theory one day and everything will fall in place).
  So, for day-to-day life, I dont think you should try finding scientific reasons to religious rituals or religious insights in scientific findings. While it may be too early for me to say this before you have had a chance to convince me, I feel most ’scientific’ reasons behind religious rituals are invented later in time, to back up matters of faith with (so-called) scientific support.

• adi // Aug 9, 2006 at 12:52 pm

  Shastri:
  I agree with you completely on your first point regarding pompous bhakti. Let me just ask you a question aimed at breaking a particular mould of thinking in your mind. It is a question that can be seen as that or plain stupid otherwise.

  Why should something irritate you? If someone is showing off his bhakti, turn the other way and walk away. I have tried doing it and it works big time. I just have a small laugh inside myself at such people. What else can I do? It’s his life! Not mine! Thankfully!

  Coming to your second point regarding bhakti and pseudo bhakti: Whoa! Man! I am never going to waste my energies trying to speak on that topic with a man having such extensive knowledge of four areas: science and religion, pseudo science and pseudo religion. My understanding of the first two fields itself is very elementary. So, there is no way I can convince or argue with you or anybody for that matter!

  But yeah, just one thing. I have been trying to dissociate my mind from a process called ‘Conditioning’. And in that process I realised that I am excessively conditioned to something called Logic. When I dissociated myself from that aspect called ‘Logic‘, many things that i never understood till today seemed to find a place in my extended boundary of the so-called ‘Understanding‘. It was what I would call a liberating experience. Holding on to those states of mind is tough, but whenever I can I do enjoy it! I don’t have any particular advice for you or for anybody to try it out, because it can be quite unsettling to believe that there is a world that exists that has no Logic or let me say there is a logic different to the one that we call ‘logic!

• Hardu // Aug 10, 2006 at 2:31 am

  If one does not believe in it and if there is no bhakti towards it, there is no need to follow the rituals. It should only be done if one WANTS to do it and believes in it and not just because one HAS to. I do it because I believe in it and it gives me some kind of self confidence. There is no need for anyone to falsely get bhakti and try to learn it just because elders expect one to.

• shark // Aug 10, 2006 at 8:22 am

  @adi: Just because “our lifestyle” is like that.. does not mean that the rituals are nonsense :)
  It’s we who chose to live this way (I am not saying that it’s right/wrong to live this way!). So
  fine live this way. But don’t complain about the rituals. If we don’t believe in the rituals we are
  free NOT to follow them. Our religion gives us that freedom. But we have no rights to make fun of
  them just because we don’t understand it.

  @Shastri: As rightly said by Adi, you have seen the people “wrongly” implement the rituals. It’s not
  the rituals that are “wrong” :) Infact if you see in the scriptures, it is specifically said that
  you should invite “brahmin married women” and give them alms. Now by “brahmin” I don;t mean the caste of
  today. In olden days, Brahmins used to “live” on what others gave as alms. So there it goes!
  So, the idea behind it is still the same that you should give the “needy”. It’s people who are not following it!

  And one more thing, not everyone is capable to meditate. I am sure you also know how difficult it is
  to concentrate on one thing.. remember exam times!

  So the elders divised “methods” which could induce some kind of feeling when done atleast aloud and in a group.
  Remember the “feeling” you get when you sing the national anthem in a group. Will you feel the same if you
  just did it in a corner of a room.

• adi // Aug 10, 2006 at 9:21 am

  Hardu:
  Thanks for your comment!
  Nobody has to do those rituals for somebody else. If they feel like doing it they can do it.

  Shark:
  I didn’t say rituals are nonsense because of our lifestyle. I said we can’t do them with Bhakti in our lifestyle. I agree with you that our Religion gives us the freedom not to follow the rituals. But hey, When did I make fun of them?!

• shark // Aug 10, 2006 at 10:42 pm

  Sir.. heading? Ritualistic nonsense ?

  And fun part.. who fell off the chair laughing ;-)?

• Shruthi // Aug 11, 2006 at 9:34 am

  Good post, and fantastic comments :) Shastri was telling me about you, Adi. going thro your posts… good ones.

• adi // Aug 11, 2006 at 9:47 am

  Shark:
  You got me!

  Shruthi:
  Thanks! Keep coming!

• adi // Aug 11, 2006 at 9:48 am

  Shark:
  But yeah, I ought to clarify that I have nothing against rituals done voluntarily. I am against imposed rituals.

• Veena Shivanna // May 3, 2007 at 6:17 am

  Ask her to spend some time with your mom for a better knowledge transition.. some are really good ones & we can enjoy doing that amidst our regular routines!
  One similar story,
  When a person was doing his pooja, he used to tie a cat under one one buTTi. When asked he said his dad & grand dad used to do it & hence he does. The actually story is this..
  some 2-3 generations back, when the person x was doing his pooja his cat used to disturb his pooja & hence he just tied the cat & covered it using the butti & later released it after the pooja process.
  After few generations, it so happened that everybody thought tying cat was part of their pooja process itself. Its kind of half knowledge transferred annisutte.

• Veena Shivanna // May 3, 2007 at 6:20 am

  About offering coconuts to GOD, here is a nice explanation.. !
  ————————————————————
  In India one of the most common offerings in a temple is a coconut. It is also offered on occasions like weddings, festivals, the use of a new vehicle, bridge, house etc. It is offered in the sacrificial fire whilst performing homa. The coconut is broken and placed before the Lord. It is later distributed as prasaada.
  The fibre covering of the dried coconut is removed except for a tuft on the top. The marks on the coconut make it look like the head of a human being. The coconut is broken, symbolising the breaking of the ego. The juice within, representing the inner tendencies (vaasanas) is offered along with the white kernel - the mind, to the Lord.
  A mind thus purified by the touch of the Lord is used as prasaada ( a holy gift). In the traditional abhishekha ritual done in all temples and many homes, several materials are poured over the deity like milk, curd, honey, tender coconut water, sandal paste, holy ash etc. Each material has a specific significance of bestowing certain benefits on worshippers. Tender coconut water is used in abhisheka rituals since it is believed to bestow spiritual growth on the seeker.
  The coconut also symbolises selfless service. Every part of the tree -the trunk, leaves, fruit, coir etc. Is used in innumerable ways like thatches, mats, tasty dishes, oil, soap etc. It takes in even salty water from the earth and converts it into sweet nutritive water that is especially beneficial to sick people. It is used in the preparation of many ayurvedic medicines and in other alternative medicinal systems.

  The marks on the coconut are even thought to represent the three-eyed Lord Shiva and therefore it is considered to be a means to fulfill our desires

• Mysorean // May 4, 2007 at 2:56 am

  Veena:
  I want her to spend some time with herself to start with to know if she knows what she is doing. Otherwise it is a total waste of time and effort.
  LOL@ the cat ritual.

  My points of opposition with the note on coconuts:
  The marks on the coconut make it look like the head of a human being. The coconut is broken, symbolising the breaking of the ego
  Looks like the head and symbolises something are all justifications to use it. You get what I mean? After we have started using it, people have tried to find reasons why we are using it and have arrived at the most probable list of reasons. That’s it! There is no real sense in what they are saying.

  Tender coconut water is used in abhisheka rituals since it is believed to bestow spiritual growth on the seeker.
  Is believed to bestow? So they are not sure.

  The coconut also symbolises selfless service…
  One thing that i seem to agree with in the whole write-up.

  The marks on the coconut are even thought to represent the three-eyed Lord Shiva
  Thought to again?!

• Veena Shivanna // May 4, 2007 at 3:07 am

  Hogli bidi… just found it as good information. Logic ella apply maadidre aagalla ashTe :-)

• Rani // Aug 22, 2007 at 12:26 am

  Good discussion.

  God is in each and everybody, Mr. Adi was laughing off chair, then he is God of laughter. May be even his wife would have smiled after a tiring pooja. Getting a smile on the face is so important, and i think now Adi you should ask ur wife to perform pooja’s every now and then, so that something or the other will make you laugh. God is there to make you laugh/smile isn’t?

• Rani // Aug 22, 2007 at 12:27 am

  Wow, this post is running for a year now. :)

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