Culture of a city

February 2nd, 2007 · 30 Comments

In one of my posts, we had a discussion about the culture of Mysore. Vatsan compared it with Chennai’s culture and said:

Mysore will become another silicon valley and lose its identity :), im pretty sure.

Chennai retains its identity because the labour working in IT firms is largely frm in and around TN, and chennai has close connections with TN, culturally speaking, chennai is an overgrown village. if mysore doesnt have roots with karnataka and workers don come frm the state, then Mysore will lose its identity just like blore :)

I replied:

Mysore will become another silicon valley and lose its identity :), im pretty sure.
I can never be that cynical about Mysore for sure! And would love to disagree but I don’t have the benefit of foresight! I hope I can come back one day and tell you, “Ha ha Vatsan, see that?! That’s my Mysore!”

Chennai retains its identity because the labour working in IT firms is largely frm in and around TN,
I agree with this. But there is a large crowd from outside TN in Chennai. A bad example to prove my point would be the successful running of all hindi and telugu movies in TN. Let me see if I can get my figures about non-TN population in Chennai from somewhere.

and chennai has close connections with TN, culturally speaking, chennai is an overgrown village.
Absolutely right! Totally agree! I keep saying the same thing to lot of people!

if mysore doesnt have roots with karnataka and workers don come frm the state, then Mysore will lose its identity just like blore :)
I can’t make sense of this statement. Do you mean to say that B’lore is the capital of the state with which it has no roots? Doesn’t that sound absurd? I am sure you can rephrase this so that I can understand better.

Vatsan clarified:

…in chennai there is a 30% telugu population, and a huge marwari population, even before the IT boom, who are an integral part of the city. they managed to blend in and assimlate with the city, i doubt if mysore, or blore for tht matter has such a diverse population, before the boom. in blore for instance there was a sudden influx of diverse people, who refuse to assimilate the local culture, then the city lost its identity. chennai is already diverse so it wasnt a huge issue, and as long as other assimilate the local culture, they will be absorbed into chennai. visit parrys corner to chk out the marwaris in chennai.

what i meant is tht blore is the capital, but then it should have strong ties with the village, which i don see it does have therefore when kannidigas frm the state flock blore, they will change the culture. likewise with mysore. if the average mysorean can relate the the rural lifestyle, then with an influx of people from rural areas working in IT wnot change the culture. but if not, then it is a problem.

I said:

You are making extremely valid statements. I agree with you that the sub-sets of diversity in a city’s culture should get assimilated in an overall culture that the city already has.

Rural and the city cultures need to assimilate into each other to form an unique culture representing the region. Chennai has it and you are right.

But I am not sure if we can attribute this alone as the reason for the “identity-crisis” that Bangalore is facing or like you say “Mysore will face”.

What are the other reasons? Why do cities like Bangalore face an identity crisis? Why should native kannadigas fight for their language to be spoken in their own land? Wasn’t the partition of states done on the basis of language spoken? Then why these issues now? If you can’t speak the native language of the state you are in, then you ought to atleast learn to live with it.

Let me know what you think.

Tags: Mysore · Bangalore · Serious thoughts · India

30 responses so far ↓

yogesh // Feb 2, 2007 at 4:28 am

bingo!

Please wait for my detailed comment!
S.Ganesh Kumar // Feb 2, 2007 at 5:30 am

Adithya;
Your concerns are right.But;even in Chennai,you will be highly respected if you speak in English,even if your a native Tamilian.(That’s out of personal experience!).In cities like Chennai,Hyderabad it is colonial hangover;while in Bengalooru,it’s ‘IT’ hangover!
I’m not against Englsh(Afterall;I’m communicating now in that lang.);but you must not be given special respect just because you speak in English to a Tamilian;even though both know to speak Tamil.
Well;mine is a Thamzhan’s concern;yours is a Kannadiga’s concern;but the concerns are similar.
yogesh // Feb 2, 2007 at 6:08 am

Your concern is right! I can very much correlate this problem with my hometown Pune.

Pune is also facing similar identity crisis. Inspite of being known as Cultural Capital of Marathi and Maharashtra, now local people from here hardly see anything that they can identify themselves with. The language, food, festivals, movies, music, local art everything is influenced by some culture which is totally alien to this land.

I personally feel Language is the most important aspect of one’s ethnic and cultural identity.

Language is like one’s mother which must be given due respect by people who are migrating from other states.
Even if any outsider don’t find my mothertongue beautiful or intelligent he/she MUST respect her, love her and hold her in high place.

Nobody claims that his/her language is the greatest. These comparisons are useless, meaningless and out of place. But you must respect the local culture. Period.

Native people should never fight for there language to be spoken in their own land. It is the duty of every person to respect the local language.

Here is one link on similar discussion http://www.ibnlive.com/blogs/bijoysankarsaikia/369/31229/the-hindi-haters.html
Vijay // Feb 2, 2007 at 6:54 pm

I was once having lunch with a Sr. VP from a large FMCG company who happened to be from the North. He had stayed both in Bangalore and Chennai. Somewhere the topic meandered to the language of communication issue… his point was that he did not “dis-respect” the local language but found no need to learn it since he could get by in English.
I pointed out the same was probably not true where he came from (getting by in English)… he agreed and said its probably because people are more worldly wise and less biased in the South.

Ganesh and Yogesh make excellent points…
Usha // Feb 3, 2007 at 12:19 am

As a person who has lived in 4 cities I came to realise the importance of being tri-lingual: mother tongue, national lang and the un-official natl language: English.
I do not quite understand the ‘local lang’ concerns. Ethnic identity is closely tied with language but i think its more than speaking and sharing that language with others. And also imposition of Tamil or Kanada on outsiders who come to stay in Chennia/Bangalore is a sign of Xenophobia or an inherent insecurity in one’s culture.
Yes Chennai has no sign of identity crisis not because of Tamil but because of assimilation. It has embraced traditional and contemporary/modern elements and life-styles. For example the December Kacheri season and the famous ‘Other Festival’ happen around the same time and attract large crowds. In a lot of ways its a culture of contradictions but they managed to co-exist in a harmonious way.

PS: Interesting point that about ‘worldly wise’ people in the South. Though i wouldn’t venture that far. Chennai i will concede has an almost irrational dislike of Hindi-leading to English lang polarization.
Ramanan // Feb 3, 2007 at 1:31 am

The film industry is what ties people together. Just look at it. Cities with a well developed ‘StarWOOD’.. like Kollywood or Tollywood will never FEEL threatened by alien cultures.

Secondly Thamizh nadu and Chennai politics itself was based on ‘taking pride in being thamizhian’… which was one of the slogans of teh ruling kazhagams. Karnataka on the other hand has been ruled by national parties.

The last time congress was in power in chennai was inthe 1960s. There is no way the Thamizhian is going to feel threatened in the least. Likewise Hyderabad too.
Ramanan // Feb 3, 2007 at 1:34 am

And stop thinking about IT as being one of the reasons for cultural changes. IT is nothing but a blip in a city’s history.
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 3:22 am

Ganesh:

Giving more respect to English speakers is a relative thing.

Let me tell you about one of my seniors from college. This guy was born and brought up in Karnataka and refused to speak in Kannada. He would go to a pan shop and say, “Do you have two center freshes please?” “How much?” “Thanks!”. Maybe, according to what you say, he was respected by that pan shop guy, but he was always ridiculed in his friends’ circles!
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 4:13 am

Yogesh:

I agree with your points totally.

When you say “you must respect the local culture” I am reminded of an incident that occurred in my college. This college, arguably, is regarded is the top 10 in the country in management education and is situated in Tamil Nadu. And the incident I am about to refer to concerns the then Director of the Institute.

Ironically it was a class dealing with Indian Ethos and Values in Management. He was describing how much respect he had for tamil culture. Till then everything was fine. It was interesting to people like me also who belonged to different cultures because we were getting to know about Tamil culture. Slowly the topic drifted into other cultures and he started ridiculing and throwing muck at other cultures. And by doing so, he also said that Tamil culture was the best ever or something to that effect. I don’t remember his wordings exactly because I had switched myself off by then. I get terribly enraged when people think they are respecting their own culture by demeaning other cultures. And it was like the case of ‘when you point a finger at others, the remaining four are pointing at you’.

I also read that article you sent. Though Bijoy has completely misread the karnataka primary schools issue, he makes valid points most of the time. And I agree with his bottomline. He’s damn right!
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 4:24 am

Vijay:

So in a way you are bringing out the North-South divide, is it? And anyway I don’t quite seem to agree to that ‘worldly-wise’ and ‘less-biased’ statement of his’. And it would be foolish to make any similar generalisation on the North Indians just to contradict his statement.

Sometimes I am reminded of a comment a close friend of mine made which left me thinking. And that statement comes back to me time and again when I think about issues like the ones we are discussing here. He said, “do you hear what ppl in nagaland/arunachal/assam are all claiming? they dont think or see anything, any damn thing in common with the Indians that our central govt. projects as - they dont speak Hindi, they dont know how far the parliament is from their cities - and they dont get any justice by the representatives that get elected (God knows how!) - so they just dont claim India actually “represents” them! With this much diversity in this vast a country, its actually stupidity to dream of having ONE idea represent all the various peoples living here..

whats so common between a guy from MP and a guy in madurai? Is it just because we’ve formed this virtual place called India that we have something in common?”
[I am quoting him without his permission. But he is a close friend and would rather like to be involved in this discussion than raise right-to-privacy issues with me!]
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 4:30 am

Usha:

First question, what is our National language? Hindi? In fact no, it is not. Hindi is just one among the 23 languages assigned the ‘National Language’ status. Hindi is no doubt the second ‘official’ language i.e. it is used by Government in all their communication material. They use ‘English’ and ‘Hindi’. That was for the record.

‘Culture of contradictions‘ is so true! But as you said, they peacefully co-exist and I guess that’s that! :)
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 4:44 am

Ramanan:

Your comment has me slightly on the ‘thinking mode’ because it was totally out-of-the-scope of what I expected.

Just to understand you better, let me rephrase whatever you have said:
1. Cities with well-developed film industries do not face such an identity crisis
2. If parties involved in the state politics are regional parties and not National parties, the cities/ state will not face such problems as we are discussing.

Am I right?

For the moment, I will assume I am right and continue. But you can correct me if I am wrong and we can take it further thereafter.

Regarding your point#1: It might just be a coincidence that Bangalore doesn’t have a well-developed film industry unlike Chennai or Hyderabad. But look at Mumbai - the hub of Indian cinema and the city has grave problems. Exactly the same ones as we are discussing about Bangalore. Think about it.

Regarding point#2: You might be well on your way to a strong theory there. And I am with you on this one. But we also need to keep in mind that the present Government in power in AP is Congress. So, when we make empirical studies we need to be careful with our sample collection! :)
vatsan // Feb 3, 2007 at 4:48 am

local language is an important aspect. but in my original comments, i didnt consider language because english is the language of communication in south india. but more on the feel and character of the city. i know long time bangloreans who always crib about the city loosing its character with the IT boom. it has become a cosmopolitan city with its pubs etc, how different is it from Shangai or Singapore? Zilch, none, it has lost its character. thats what i was referring to in my comments.

langauge is decided by necessity to get employment. if its french tht will earn one big bucks, then french it is :), but then this culture and character isnt that fluid, its more static and changes over time. mysore has a certain charm to it (which i presume led adi to choose this url) i was certain with IT that charm would disappear.
vatsan // Feb 3, 2007 at 4:54 am

ooh and i forgot to add to the language debate, though in chennai one can get by with english, english isnt the first language of choice. its our own version of tamil ‘madras baashai’ which we madrasis are very proud of.

we have even created a wiki entry :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Madras_Tamil_slang_words
Murali Partha // Feb 3, 2007 at 5:07 am

Change is inevitable in any city! Some people would term this as a city losing its character, or losing its charm. Some would like to view it as an evolution.
Some would consider Chennai as losing it’s “Chennai-ness” or could also look at it as becoming more cosmopolitan. For the sake of debating I am sure it is pretty easy for anyone to take any side of the equation and put up strong enough arguments!
Veena Shivanna // Feb 3, 2007 at 10:07 am

I liked Murali’s statement of all.!
yaakri Mysorean sumne ee tara post bardu ellara taleli huLu biTTideera :-) Pls treat this statement lighter.
I love visiting places no matter its within the country or outside.
Change is a rule of Nature is a wise thought & I go with it…!
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 10:25 am

Vatsan:

Yeah I know what you think on this topic! :) And that wiki entry, I liked ‘yakka’ the best! LOL!
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 10:27 am

Murali Partha:

Valid points! Like Veena, I have to say your comment has a lot of truth element in it! :)
Mysorean // Feb 3, 2007 at 10:29 am

Veena:
Swalpa serious aagi enadru bariyona ankonde! Thought of making this blog look profound! :P

Nimma photosu nanna blog combine aadre olle combination aagutte allva… sumne yochista idde aste. Serious aagi togobedi. Nanu nimma photography astu uttammavagi bariyolla! :)

And coming to the topic: Change is the rule of the game and we need to play the game that way I guess! No use cribbing!
Ramanan // Feb 3, 2007 at 11:13 am

Ok. Correct. I might be wrong in the first one… I phrased it that way because movie industry shaped politics in both TN and AP in south India.

Political parties that began with a strong foundation of the local language supremacy. I am not sure what happened in AP.. (telengana movement… was it abotu telugu ?)… But Periyar, Anna, Mu Ka, MGR.. and all the other leaders had clearly defined language based agendas.

Periyar was against sanskrit.. Anna against Hindi.. and the list goes on. Now MuKa is against Sanskrit again… as long as this goes on Thamizhians would never have an ‘Identity crisis’
Murali Partha // Feb 4, 2007 at 12:28 am

Mysorean, It is definitely good to have some serious thought provoking discussions. This one was a good one and most everybody had good valid comments - best part was nobody was very negative or casting aspersions on any group. As SB mentioned in one of his comments on Vijay’s Bangalore Blues, you cannot please everyone!

On a lighter note, I must relate this incident where a friend’s uncle from Chennai, who was visiting Mysore, tried his hand at Kannada to hilarious effect. He went to the Mysore market to buy betel leaves. He thought he would try out his Kannada, after-all how difficult a word would “vethallai” be in Kannada, right? Must be just a change of one syllable. Poor man, he came back complaining that the whole market started laughing at him, when he went asking “bethallai beku” :-)

Ever since he has been known as “Bethalle Mama”. But he was sporting enough to try to talk the local language!!
Mysorean // Feb 4, 2007 at 9:29 pm

Ramanan:

In AP, it is the ‘Telangana movement’ that’s ruling the roost right now. It’s about partitioning the state into Telangana and Andhra Pradesh like Chattisgarh, Jharkhand and Uttaranchal. Telangana is the traditional way of regionising the state of A.P. And is quite a contentious issue now. Congress came to power on the basis of promising the people of Telangana a separate state. To know more about Telangana visit this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telangana

You are right about the state of TN politics. It must be the only state where populist and vendetta politics have reached an all-time high. And these populist tendencies have taken its toll on the people. But surprisingly the low-level politics hasn’t affected the development of the state much. Or who knows, maybe it would have progressed much faster without this petty politics!
Mysorean // Feb 4, 2007 at 9:41 pm

Murali Partha:

Bethallai beku - LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! I just couldn’t stop laughing on reading that!

And s.b. is always right! :)
S.Ganesh Kumar // Feb 5, 2007 at 2:02 am

Adithya,
You are wrong in the case of Telangana.It’s a bit hyped up by the media.If you see,TRS could not win any seat on tis own in Hyderabad and adjoining RangaReddy.Apart from that,Nalagonda and Khammam districts do not favour separate Telangana.These 4 areas together form 42% of Telangana’s population and have 44 of 1o6 assembly seats in the Telangana region.And I do not think people in the urban areas too favour the same.
veena shivanna // Feb 5, 2007 at 3:05 am

Thanks for visiting my photoblog. seriou thoughts are okay aadre bartha bartha adu yaavdO discussion ge tirag baardu ashTe :-)
combination try maadoNa bidi, nimma sangama photos munde nanna photos yenilla bidi.. adu changing bere haakideera neevu :-)

Amele hushaaru…!
veena shivanna // Feb 5, 2007 at 3:07 am

ayyo enaaytri ? Dynamic aagi transitional photos of sangama? I think those sangama photos comes when I click on some particular blogpost…
Mysorean // Feb 7, 2007 at 11:19 am

Ganesh Kumar:
I think you are right in whatever you are saying but my information is limited on this. So, I cannot comment on what you have said. If you feel that “ruling the roost” comment from me was not necessary then let’s withdraw it. But this discussion is out of the purview of this topic. Let’s discuss that elsewhere at a more relavant place.
Mysorean // Feb 7, 2007 at 11:20 am

Veena:
Adeno nangu innu artha aagilla. Homepage nalli anthu definite aagi “sangama”de photo barodu. Bere ella ellinda hakta ide antha nange satyavagilu gottila! :P
ram // Feb 19, 2007 at 6:52 am

In tamilnadu,many people are from andhra,but they living like tamilians, similarly the karnataka state has more andrites except bangalore(where more tamilians) where they living has andra people.this is the state of karnataka.but anyway andra people is the dominated people in whole south india.
shiva // Feb 19, 2007 at 6:58 am

Yes ram i also agree to it..in iit madras most of the from andra..even i am intrested in debating why tamilians are less in iits when compared to telugu people?

Mysorean

Culture of a city

February 2nd, 2007 · 30 Comments

30 responses so far ↓

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